IN A NEW LOW for Victoria Police, a local district firearms officer has decided to take a licence and firearms off a 74-year-old pensioner after she stopped two kids – aged 7 and 4 – fighting each other.
In fact the seizure notice was not completed properly, suggesting the actions of the officer may not only have been unlawful, but casting doubt on whether he is able to do his job properly.
Jenny, retired pensioner and target shooter
Jenny C is a 74-year-old retired pensioner living on the Bellarine Peninsula and has legally held firearms since 1970. She has an unblemished record and states she has never been in any trouble with the police.
About 6 months ago a young couple with 3 children moved into the house next door.
Jenny hadn’t had any problems with her new neighbours, so when the 7-year-old started punching into his 4-year-old sister in their backyard, Jenny put her head over the fence to tell them to stop fighting.
That’s when the children’s mother came out. Apparently infuriated, she gave Jenny a verbal spray.
When a backyard fight between two small kids becomes a police matter
Shortly after this, police turned up at Jen’s place to seize her guns and suspend her licence. They served her their paperwork indicating it was their intention to cancel her licence.
The attending officers told Jenny that they were acting in response to a complaint from the children’s mother.
At the very least you would think common sense would have prevailed and local police would have interviewed Jenny to find out what actually happened. Or maybe they could have spent more time asking the angry mum about the backyard squabble.
The NSC knows from past experience that if police had any concerns about Jenny being dangerous to her neighbour or the children, an intervention order (IVO) would have been obtained by Police and served on Jenny.
If police believed they didn’t have grounds as the applicant for such an IVO their advice to Jenny’s neighbours would have been for them to attend a local Magistrates Court and apply for an IVO themselves. They didn’t do this.
Instead, like Ron Sterry in the NT, the police took the lazy way out and went after the samaritan shooter.
The NSC will support Jenny through this case, as it’s obvious that the grounds for suspension are weak. In fact they’re the weakest we’ve ever seen.
The NSC’s legal counsel has been briefed and we’re going to help Jenny take this matter through internal review, and the Victorian Firearms Appeal Committee and VCAT if need be.
VicPol's dodgy paperwork
The Victoria Police suspension notice served on Jenny requires her to provide reasons setting out why her licence should not be cancelled.
The notice states she is not a ‘fit and proper person’ to hold a licence, but does not say why.
The field that is provided to state the grounds for the suspension is even marked ‘mandatory’, but in this case, it was left blank.
The fact Victoria Police took action in this case is one thing, but the lack of discipline around providing a proper notice is, in our view, unprofessional.
Jenny’s “warlike “arsenal consisted of a single 22 and two 177 air rifles. To add to the disgraceful way VicPol have handled this matter, the officer indicated on the paperwork that only Jenny’s licence has been seized, not her guns. Yet they took both.
Vic registry’s control over the DFOs
…. but whose right?
If the police think that going after a 74-year-old for this is worth their time responding to, then it’s clear that something is wrong at VicPol.
It shows the Victorian registry needs to provide significantly better guidance to their district firearm officers, and make sure shooters who have done nothing wrong are left alone.
We mentioned earlier that Jenny lives in Bellarine. Her local MP just happens to Victoria’s Police Minister, Lisa Neville.
We will be raising this matter with Minister Neville (who can be contacted at lisa.neville@parliament.vic.gov.au) and asking her to ensure her constituent is treated fairly and properly by VicPol. We’ll be interested to see who she backs.
Going forward
Prior to any of this happening Jenny had started the process of moving, having listed her home for sale.
While it is possible she may move before this matter is resolved, the NSC will continue to work with her to clear her name.
Wherever Jenny moves to, we will support her until her licence and firearms are returned and her name is cleared.
This year’s Victorian State Election
This is an appalling way for a registry to treat shooters.
Unfortunately, the only way we can change this is by sending a clear message to the government by shifting votes at the next election – which, for Victoria, will be on November 26 this year.
The good news is that this is now not too far away – and we hope to get some good outcomes for shooters through the election process.
Clearly, Vic needs a change in Police Minister, if this example is typical of “effective use of resources”.
When the collection of psychos in govt; politicians, police, judiciary, reaches critical mass, mass murder of the people inevitably follows. Last century, 262,000,000 innocents were murdered by their own govts in 17 countries after their firearms were first taken away – for their own safety, of course — RJ Rummel.
Whenever I see Lisa Neville on the nooz, I see a man hater.
The sad part of all this is its all too common…at least she was told what had caused the police to act..yes cops paper work was crap ..the old adage she an old person…show cause is a pathetic excuse used at a drop of the hat…all mine was an anomalous phone call to cops about an alleged threat…they cops knew me very well…but no investigation of alleged phone call…good bye firearms and licence…your comment they said only took licence is laughable..no licence no guns!!!
In Ukraine, the Australian government and other world governments are providing monetary assistance and arms to the Ukrainian public to defend their country against a foreign invader a bit hypocritical after we were forced to give up all semi-auto and pump-action weapons.
Yes, when you’re happy to die for the Government, they don’t mind giving you a semi-auto.
Not to mention that when the conflict is over where will the weapons be?
Also it is noted that the some in the Ukrainian and its allied military where Nazi badges even today. Links can be provided in case there is disbelief.
Wear not where!
They appoint crap cops to DFO positions because they are inept and unable to do the job of ordinary police. This is an example.
Heh kids!! ..Do you want to manifest your standover cowardice with impunity?
…Join the police force.
Shalom all,
Michael MAZUR – wake up, this 2022, Violence and conflict are inherent in man and society, but under certain conditions, they should be held in check. Rummel examines various models of a peaceful society and determines that the social contract model is the one most likely to affect international peace.
Frank – there are NO inferences to be drawn from Australian or Ukrainian gun laws. If you have ever been to war {I have} then a need for firearms in sometimes the most unlikeliest people is clear to me so is living in a civilized community. I am a shooter too, now retired from the United Nations with severe service incurred injuries. Law enforcement must have the right people to be trained in semi automatic weapons for the right reasons. I cannot justify having a carte blanch application for all civilians to have automatic or semi-automatic weapons unless fully accredited teaching is done; for the right reason. {using an automatic or pump action weapons for a rabbit on the run doesn’t cut it}.
Bird on a wire: I did join law enforcement in Australia and I was a well-trained armed Field Security Co-ordinations Officer too.
If in fact incomplete lodgement & service of The Victoria Police suspension notice served on Jenny requires her to provide reasons setting out why her licence should not be canceled. Simply stating “not a fit & proper person” must be explained with valid reasoning. It appears the document provided, had no mandatory grounds for suspension is a faux pas, suspension in my vocabulary does NOT enable taking of her property from a securely locked approved weapons locker is “sus” unless a receipt was provided to Jenny listing the weaponry taken.
To suspend a valid shooter’s licence from Jenny who I imagine was proved had her weapons securely locked in an approved locker and not visible to the public, and Jenny a 76-year-old passive shooter.
Bravo Jenny for stopping young people from fighting.
Shalom Aleichem,
Disabled By Service Incurred Injuries
Former International Civil Servant
Association Internationale de Police L/13453 / HGH Servo per Amikeco
.
The field that is provided to state the grounds for the suspension is even marked ‘mandatory’, but in this case, it was left blank.
You’re a very windy fellow. In that study Rummel was not talking about war between states, but the 17 instances of extermination of a nation’s own people by the govt of those people once the guns owned by the people were confiscated.
A question to you; should the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” : be abolished ? If the answer is yes, then the mass murder of a hundred million Americans will soon follow.
Ken R, your thoughts and comments are a welcome breath of fresh air to these columns. Objective, reasoned and to the point, your observations provide an erudite balance to some of the more naive rants tossed up, together with those extolling a specific agenda. Further, your working knowledge of syntax, spelling and punctuation is to be commended. Please do not stint on further discourse. Your work is a pleasure to read.
as a 35 year veteran of Policing in Australia and having been a competitive Police competition shooter in many parts of the world. I have met police from and in many countries. I make the observation that police worldwide and the same, EXCEPT in Victoria.
Bill, I am a little bemused. Should your second last line read ARE the same …?
Bloody Spellcheck is no respecter of writers.
Ken R
I applaud you on your written review, thank you. The police officer in turn should be disqualified as a DFO
Incompetent people in the job again.
Probably got the job on his gender equality values.
This whole country is in a mess with police forces.
The police system accross Australia needs a full inquest!
Thank you for taking up the fight for innocent shooters and hunters , the police minister should be sacked along with these useless police officers in this case because clearly they have no common sense , good onya Jenny hope you win this
In the early 1980’s virtually everyone in My local area knew I had Guns and was a Shooter.
After all, a State Emergency Service Officer responding to an Emergency Bushfire Call-out with a Rifle and Ammunition was something worth knowing about.
But today absolutely no one in My local area knows I have any interest whatsoever in Guns or Militaria (or about My 15 Years embedded in the Australian Military).
And My local Gun Shop is over an Hour’s travel from home, just to reduce the possibility of someone I know in My local area, accidentally seeing Me go into a Gun Shop.
Can’t imagine what the locals thought when they saw a Police Car outside My House for well over an Hour one evening, whilst Two Patrol Officers inspected My Key Safe, Rifle Safe, Shotgun Safe, Pistol Safe, Bolt Safe, Magazine Safe and Ammunition Safe.
Flying Colours on the Inspection by the way, My Fourth since getting My Firearms Licence.
This Police Minister is one of the People that wrote and and pushed for Andrews So called emergency powers and was passed by the three co called Independents who done a deal with Andrews This woman also stood up on TV with the police Commissioner and current Commissioner and blatantly LIED about consulting Federal Cabinet about closing Gun shops at the start of Covid lockdowns and nobody has taken them to task.
I’ve read some of the comments and agree the officer did wrong by not getting the hole story and looking at it objectively but this is the world we live in, whereby they, the government want to disarm us. But what kind of message are they sending by condoning violence towards a little girl. The mind boggles.
A proper show cause as to why you can get Firearms & Lic taken by Police doesn’t seem to exist in Vic. Once a person decides to makes an application for an Intervention Order at a Police Station or Courthouse against you the procedure is for the service of process on you and the saying goodbye to F/Arms&Lic, BEFORE IT IS TESTED IN ANY WAY BEFORE ANY JUDICIARY. So Freddy the local druggy could wander off and make a complaint and yr a goner, stinks – Yes!
Even when the compaint is not upheld, my understanding is that you then still have to substantiate your suitability all over again, even though you haven’t done a thing wrong !. Be happy for a serving MOPF in VICPOL to point out any misinformation in the above. Best of luck with the hearing Jenny, it won’t be easy and you will have to be on yr mettle to come out of this OK. Perhaps seek Legal Aid to represent you ?
What a joke this system is, I had a cereal pest ringing me banging on my front door so had a discussion with two very nice police officers about action i could take. They told me an intervention order was the only possible recourse BUT if i went down that course my guns would be confiscated until the issue was resolved and the chances of me getting them back would be slim. so the criminal has the upper hand. so grin and bare it.
Do I understand you correctly, Syd, in that should I or any other registered firearms owner seek to issue an Intervention Order on a nuisance neighbour, barking dog owner, late night partier or whatever, that MY licence and firearms would be “confiscated” ? Whaaaat? In effect, this means that an injured , (and innocent), party seeking redress at law, by means provided in appropriate legislation, for wrongs/damages occasioned by others, is automatically penalised by firearms confiscation, before the Intervention Order matter is even heard? And following, when the matter has been dealt with by the court, the dispossessed gun owner (who has done no wrong), does not have his/her firearms returned, but is forced into having to fight for their return, with no guarantee of success? When the “very nice police officers” appraised you of these circumstances, did they happen to mention the Act or legislation providing the police these unjust powers? Should there be any wise and legally smart persons out there with the answers, please let the readers, and me, know.
Real rules, and accountability by all stake holders is required, sadly the deck seems stacked at the moment, very sad. Discretion of the minister and similar needs to be removed, it is lazy and personality driven.
Complete absence of procedural fairness and natural justice. Jenny has been convicted and punished without a proper investigation and without an opportunity to answer any charges or allegations made.
I hope the authorities are just as ready to pursue anyone found to have lied to the police, and any police who failed to follow proper procedure.
I find the above mentioned matter appalling. Not only should Jenny be cleared of all wrong doing, her property and any costs reimbursed, but those involved in this misconduct and breach of law should be punished to the full extent of the law. This Orwellian craziness needs to be stopped, the only means being to finally stand up to those fully embraced by their righteousness and those abusing their power or position to condemn and abuse others. Time for common sense to make a return!!
Anyone standing for federal parliament in May, or for vic state parliament in Nov, should be asked about whether they will introduce a bill to have the equivalent of the Second Amendment to the US Constitution also as law federally, or in Vic.
Michael, take a look at the references in this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l36ea77bxjzwshk/PAM%20v4.pdf?dl=0
The yanks, through their military intelligence outfit, funded the disarmament campaigns in Australia, Britain, Canada and New Zealand. Presuming we would then long for their constitution, as a whole or bit by bit. You’re falling for their scheme. They are the enemy and must be stopped. Here it comes:
The invasion of Iraq was illegal and both France and Russia lost their oil deposits in that country for the ‘rebuild’, that yank companies profited from. Just because Washington said so and was the strongest. The overthrow of Gaddafi led to China (and I think Russia) losing their oil deposits in that country, just because Washington said so and was the strongest.
And political parties yanks invest in were eager to support. Now Washington is no longer the strongest, and those same political parties know how this works. Anyone who thinks bygones will be bygones… that’s not how it works.
The yanks carefully teach political parties they invest in: “The weak should fear the strong, the strong should be bold, the strong should take from the weak.” And if you want to be friends with them, you take from your own people, as they just did with lock downs and previously with what’s now called ‘lock-outs’, to people like us over guns, weakening your own country, so only Washington takes from weaker countries. They don’t notice. They’ve been told.
David, just the first two amendments, nothing else, ” Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of a religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, or abridge the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people to peaceably assemble to petition the govt for a redress of grievances. ” —-insert Parliament in place of Congress.
and
” A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed .”
She probably thought she was doing the right thing. But in this day and age I would be more inclined to stay out of other peoples business. It’s one of the reasons I don’t associate with my neighbours or bother talking to them at all. I would certainly not let them play with my kids either. The same goes with work ,don’t tell anybody anything you don’t want them to know. I have know doubt that people of Jenny’s ilk had different way handling things back in the day The whole things sad and ridiculous really. Good luck Jenny.
Just ridiculous treatment and not really a lawful reason.
It sounds like something that would happen here in WA.
The police now have have far too much power and when it comes to firearms they are generally incompetent.
When Howard introduced his gun laws there was so many firearms on offer and are now outside the system.
Status quo ante, is what we need, meaning all gun laws following the Port Arthur massacre need be abolished. Why ? Port Arthur was a secret govt operation which could only have been carried out with complete media complicity in the coverup that followed.